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you noticed! these clothes are too big, so i'm donating them. how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain. [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios... five whole grains, 110 calories. >> all right. continuing from our nation's capital. where we're looking at the possibility that a downgrade of u.s. debt could be imminent, that riles a lot of folks, ratings agencies doing it certainly before the august 2nd deadline. it's a whole other bet. and we're downgrade is inevitable, i told folks on this network and elsewhere that i think it is inevitable regardless of the kind of deal that they make. but having said that, barney frank did raise an interesting issue and one i want to talk up with a colleague and friend, house producer, just because that happens, it doesn't mean you just unload en masse triple-a securities because you're under the assumption, let's say you're a bank or brokerage house, chad, that you have to. what do you make of that? >> that's the interesting thing. it doesn't work like the government
us in the hole is the fact that government's too big and here, the american people, this is the welfare, this is the reckoning of the welfare state. it's going to stare you in the face. do you want to the government to borrow to pay back borrowing. do you want that or want something different. i think this is a great debate to be having. >> it's a great debate, ben, but feels to me like we might be entering some sort of deal that looks good on the surface, but as we get into it doesn't resolve anything. >> i'm a little puzzled about what my friend and pal and colleague dagen said about how it country can't afford higher taxes. we had much, much higher taxes in the entire period from 1941 until 2001 and did fine for most of the time so i'm kind of puzzled about that. >> you would raise taxes-- >> we have to have a deal to not interrupt each other. we can have much higher taxes and especially on very wealthy people and i don't want to raise taxes on dagen and i don't want to raise taxes on charles, but on people who are making a million dollar, a couple million a year
posts after the gang of six revealed a plan earlier this week and a big reason why the talks broke down. and one of those six, he joins me now. senator, the gang is famous for trying to bridge republicans and democrats and democrats didn't like the fact that you didn't offer enough spending cuts, republicans didn't like the fact that among your ideas was revenue enhancements. what they called automatic tax hikes. but still, it was a bridge. is that bridge now burned and destroyed? >> oh, no, i don't think so at all. as a matter of fact, our plan does not raise taxes. we actually cut the taxes dramatically and the revenue that we allocate is revenue from growth in the economy. which is exactly how we ought to approach it. this is the-- >> wait a minute, wait, didn't that include getting rid of credit and subsidies and the like that would effectively at least here in some states, raise taxes on those individuals to work. >> well, some are arguing that, but we reduce rates far more than we adjust the tax preferences so no matter how you look at it. we have far more rate reduction than we d
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